Many people may turn up their noses, but it is not possible to talk about the history of the São Paulo Gay Parade without mentioning Marta Suplicy. Proof of this is that, in honor of the event, which recently took place at the São Paulo City Council, her name and her contribution as federal deputy and mayor were mentioned.
Even the story that she helped pay for the rainbow flag in 1997 was revealed. In an exclusive interview with the website The Cape, Marta Suplicy said she did not remember the fact, but made a point of reinforcing that she has always supported the Gay Pride since the beginning. The former minister also recalled her time as mayor and said that she helped a lot with organizing and provided "resources so she could take this leap".
This Wednesday, Marta will participate in a panel on LGBT rights at the São Paulo City Council, starting at 19pm. A pioneer in Brazil when presenting, in 1995, the bill on civil partnership between people of the same sex, the former minister believes she was responsible for bringing the discussion of homosexual rights to the fore. "Something that wasn't talked about started to be discussed," she says.
In the interview below, Marta confirms that she will be present at the Gay Parade next Sunday. "I will be in the trio at the Ministry of Tourism," she said.
Your civil partnership project has already completed 14 years and has not yet returned to the plenary. What is your analysis?
We made a huge effort to get the project approved by the committees, which was a big struggle. And this period, of being approved by the committees, resulted in the breaking of a taboo that until then was very strong and one could not talk about homosexuality, transvestites, lesbians, that is, anything related to this topic. The discussion of the project led to a huge discussion in the country, a controversy, as there were people who were against it and were terrified. But the main thing was that you can talk about the topic in all circumstances and social strata, for or against. Something that had not been discussed began to be discussed.
Today, television talks about the subject…
Yes. Soap operas started to incorporate gay themes and characters. This all made a huge advance. Regarding the vote on the project, we ourselves removed it from the plenary session a couple of times when we realized that we would be defeated, and the reason why it has not been voted on to this day is the same: we have a very strong bench that is against it and always prevents the vote in the "H" time. The project was not voted on while I was a deputy. Afterwards, he was forgotten. I stopped being a deputy and he stayed put. Now, Genoíno [José Genoíno, federal deputy for PT-SP] is returning with different approaches and with another proposal that does not talk about civil partnership.
The opposition linked the image of marriage to the PL.
Marriage was never proposed by the project, but it stayed that way. In fact, many homosexual friends and party colleagues thought that, at the time, they would help me on the day of voting on the project. When we had to withdraw from the plenary, one of my friends landed in a helicopter on a beach, one dressed as a bride and the other as a groom, and then it was a disaster. The process was very difficult, we saw it as a citizenship right.
And how is the project going today?
We have Genoíno's new project, where he puts it differently. But, in this entire period, during these 14 years, since it went to plenary until now and due to the discussion it generated, we consider that there have been important advances, that there is a more advanced State in this area.
The Judiciary has given favorable opinions in some cases…
That's why it's important to have a law, it means people don't have to go to court. It becomes a right. Some people have achieved this in court, but it costs, takes time and can end the law. Therefore, it will be a very important victory if this project [civil union] passes and this is consolidated.
Can we say that Senator Fátima Cleide (PT-RO) suffers the same resistance that you suffered?
Look, I don't know what level of attacks she suffers. But I can remember that in my time I suffered several persecutions. I believe it must be different, because before no one talked about it, it was more complicated. And the people who were against it continue to be against it.
Has Brazil advanced?
We have countries that are very backward, in more than 75 countries homosexuality is a crime. In Afghanistan it is the death penalty, in Saudi Arabia, Iran. We have prisons in Mauritania, Pakistan, Barbados, Cape Verde, India, Jamaica, Nigeria, Singapore... That's to give you an idea. And we have sentences of less than ten years in Angola, Algeria, Uzbekistan, Senegal, Cameroon, Morocco. We also have places where openly homosexual people cannot join military service, for example, in the USA…
Don't ask, don't tell...
Yes, the United States has this policy. In other words, a person can be homosexual, but cannot say anything.
Is prejudice still very strong?
Yes, but we have some advanced countries where people of the same gender can get married. South Africa, Spain, Canada, Belgium. And we have places with stable unions where people of the same sex have a legally recognized union, which was what we proposed. This type of union occurs in Ireland, Mexico City, the United Kingdom, Switzerland, France, Greenland and, today, Colombia is discussing. Humanity is moving towards this acceptance.
But our country…
I am very indignant, because Brazil was a pioneer at one point and suddenly became one of the most backward countries.
Uruguay has approved a series of pro-LGBT laws…
Yes, Argentina is a gay-friendly country. And we were unable to approve even PLC 122, which criminalizes homophobia.
Do you consider that part of this delay is due to the action of the religious bench?
I would say it is the fault of the benches that have conservative principles, as we have religious sectors that support the laws. I would also say that this is the fault of politicians who are poorly informed about homosexuality and who still consider it an illness.
Recently, deputy Eduardo Paes Lira (PTC-SP), who took over the Clodovil seat, declared that he is against pro-LGBT policies and that it is necessary to preserve Christian and family values. What do you think about this?
He is a person who lives in deep prejudice and has immense difficulty thinking something different from what he has believed his entire life. Unfortunately we have people who are impervious to any type of argument, but we have others who, studying the issue and knowing it more deeply, understand the issue and change their opinion. So, I hope that this gentleman can become aware and open to the pain and suffering of people who today do not enjoy the possibility of citizenship, who pay their taxes and who are good citizens.
Why are parliamentarians still reluctant to support bills that guarantee rights to homosexuals?
They are afraid of the electorate who still feels embarrassed to talk about the issue. I believe that the [LGBT] topic may have even regressed in recent years. Despite a fairly large advance, another part of society advanced in the opposite direction.
In the first São Paulo Gay Parade, in 1997, you, in addition to supporting, helped pay for the rainbow flag…
Wow, I didn't even remember that.
At that time, did you imagine that Parada would grow so much?
We didn't have that concern and I never imagined it would grow so much. We were concerned about putting the movement on the streets so that people would pay attention to this issue. At first it was very small and then it took different directions. When I was mayor, I helped a lot with organizing and provided resources so she could take this leap.
And today there are 3 million people on the avenue. São Paulo…
The Gay Parade today transcends the homosexual issue, it has become an attraction in the city, it is on the calendar.
There are people who criticize and accuse the Parade of being an out-of-season carnival. Do you agree with this type of criticism?
No. The Parade, due to its size, is of enormous importance and it puts the issue on the street. Often in a more folkloric way, in a more joyful way, but people are faced with movement and the exercise of freedom that makes them think. Even the most conservative people, when they see the Parade and its violence, its joy, the families, they realize that it is a respectful demonstration.
His government was marked by a great dialogue with nightclubs through the project "For a Better São Paulo", and the current government is guided by no dialogue. Do you consider this a setback?
There is always setback when dialogue does not exist.
The Lula government has just launched the National Public Policy Plan for Sexual Diversity. Last year, the president attended the opening of the 1st National LGBT Conference…
This was an important milestone in the history of Brazil, a step that was taken by Lula and I was pleased, because he not only took the step but also went to the launch of the Conference and spoke very well. This shows how people change. Thirty years ago he did not have this conception. I remember that once, I went to talk to him about the topic and he had a completely different reaction, but he was always a person open to new things, sensitive to changing his opinion. He grew up and today he supports us.
Are you going to the Gay Parade?
Yes, I will be in the Ministry of Tourism car.
You are in second place in the race for the state government of São Paulo. Do you think about competing?
I'm going to run in 2010, I don't know the position yet. At the moment, I support Palocci (Antonio Palocci, PT-SP) for the government, but if his candidacy does not materialize then I will evaluate the issue.
Service:
Location: São Paulo City Hall, at 19pm
Address: Viaduto Jacarreí, nº100, 8th floor
Debate: The rights of lesbians, gays, bisexuals, transvestites, transsexuals and the three powers
Participants: Marta Suplicy, Maria Berenice Dias, Fernanda Benvenutti and Paulo Vanuchi (to be confirmed)
